Episode 117: Should Your Spouse Fulfill Your Sexual Needs? with Amanda Louder

You are listening to the Overcome Pornography for Good podcast episode 117, Should Your Spouse Fulfill Your Sexual Needs? with Amanda Louder.

Welcome to the Overcome Pornography For Good podcast where we take a research-based, trauma informed and results focused approach to quitting porn. This approach has been revolutionary and changed thousands and thousands of lives. I’m your host, Sara Brewer.

Hey you guys, I’m really excited to share this podcast interview with you with Amanda Louder. She is a sex coach that I typically recommend and just love talking to and listening to. All right, you guys, enjoy. 

Sara: Hey, everyone, welcome to the podcast this week. This week I’m so excited to have Amanda Louder. If you’re in the program, you hear me talk about her. And I send people to you. I’m like, oh, sex coach, Amanda Louder, she did a workshop in the program last year and I love her stuff. And I just think she’s a cool lady. So hey, Amanda, thanks for being here. 

Amanda: Hey, Sara. I’m so glad to be here, this is fun. 

Sara: Yeah, way fun. So, Amanda, I’ll let you introduce yourself. She’s a sex coach. And you can introduce yourself probably a little bit better than maybe what I would say. So I’ll let you start. 

Amanda: Yeah, so I have been coaching for about five years. I have a podcast called Sex For Saints, and I help women learn to embrace their sexuality and love their sex life. And I love helping women and couples in this way really enjoy a fulfilling and sexual relationship. 

So I have a membership, that’s primarily how I coach women. Yeah, it’s lots of fun. 

Sara: Yeah, one thing I love about your content is that you talk specifics. 

Amanda: Yes. 

Sara: You don’t just talk in generalities, which you get a lot of, I think, in the sex coach space. At least maybe the stuff that I’ve seen, but you talk very specifics. 

Amanda: Yes. I mean, I think when we have danced around this topic for how many years? People, they need to know the specifics. So I was at my women’s retreat this past weekend and there’s women who were like, “I just don’t even know what it’s supposed to look like because I don’t watch sexually explicit content or read or whatever. So I just have no idea what it’s actually supposed to look like.” 

And so they were like, “What does it look like for you?” And I’m like, “Well, let’s see.” And so I pretty much went like, “This is what it looks like when it’s more quick. And this is what it looks like when it’s more, you know, longer.” And they were like, “Oh, okay.” So yeah, I’m very specific. 

Sara: I love it. Yeah, I love it. And even just topics on your podcast, so we’re talking oral sex here. We're talking dirty. 

Amanda: Yes. 

Sara: We’re talking like all of these things. And it’s just really beautiful, shame-free, open. 

Amanda: Yes, love it. 

Sara: Very good, I love it. So I love what you’re doing. 

Amanda: Thank you. I love what you’re doing, I think it’s fantastic. 

Sara: Yeah, we can just be each other’s cheerleaders. I love it. 

Amanda: Yes. 

Sara: Okay, so what I want to talk about is this belief that comes up for people, that is, my spouse is supposed to fulfill my sexual needs. 

Amanda: Yeah. 

Sara: And we’ll dive into it, this is something that I can see people getting hung up around, specifically around pornography. Well my wife won’t have sex with me, so what was I supposed to do? Or maybe using it maybe a little bit as a punishment or as a way to – This doesn’t happen very often with my clients, but we see it occasionally. Like if you don’t have sex with me, then I’m going to have to go and watch porn because I need needs met, and you’re not doing it and you’re supposed to. So I’ve got to find another way to do it. 

That’s a pretty blunt way for me to put it, you know, it’s sometimes a little bit more subtle than that. But we do see that come up. So I would love for you to tell us a little bit about that belief, what you think of it, where it comes from. Let’s start there.

Amanda: Okay, so I think in our conditioning, we’ve all received conditioning when it comes to sex and our bodies and all sorts of things. And we’re kind of taught that men are the sexual ones and they have this insatiable need that needs to be satisfied. And if you’re in a value system where monogamy happens, then your wife becomes the one that needs to fulfill that need for you. 

And we have to look at it from a different place. When it’s framed in a need frame, then what you’re missing in that is actual intimacy. So need comes from a biological need. So we talk about sex as a drive, and yes and no that it’s a drive. 

So there’s definitely things that happen in our body that push us towards sexuality, but what it’s actually pushing us towards is connection. And we misinterpret that as a sexual need. So sex is not a need in the same way that water, food, sleep, all that is, like as a basic need to survive. But what it is, I would say a “need” for, is a way to thrive in your marriage. 

But when we frame it in terms of a drive, then it becomes about an urge and hormones rather than connection and intimacy, which is really what sex is all about. And that doesn’t mean that there can’t be urges and hormones and stuff that play into it. But really, what those hormones and urges are pushing us towards is connection with another person. 

And so when it becomes about like, well, you have to do this for me, then it becomes about the “needs” and wants of one person without taking into consideration the needs and wants of another person. 

Sara: Yeah, I really love how you frame that because sometimes when I say, “Well, sex isn’t a need,” people get all up in arms. Like, what are you talking about? You are a woman and you don’t understand because I am a man and it’s different. And so I love how you say it’s not a need because, yeah, we’re not going to die and our body has ways of letting things out. 

Amanda: Nocturnal emissions. 

Sara: Yeah, it’s got ways of getting rid of that when we need to. 

Amanda: Yes it does. 

Sara: And so we’re not going to die. And so that’s what we mean in a sense, it’s not a need. But it is in order to thrive. 

Amanda: Right. And really, in a marriage, I mean it’s what makes the marriage different than any other relationship that you have. But when you’re framing it as like I need you to do this for me, you’re not taking into consideration the other person’s wants and needs. 

And so we have to look at it, so men have a physiological response that pushes them towards sex and connection that way. For men, they have a tremendous amount of testosterone, most of them. So the average is about 1,000 anagrams per deciliter. Okay, so keep that number in mind 1,000. 

Sara: Okay, 1,000. 

Amanda: Women at the age of 18 have 76. 

Sara: Oh. 

Amanda: And by the time we’re 40, it’s half that. 

Sara: Oh, wow. 

Amanda: So women don’t have that same urge and physiological push towards sex. And we’ve also been conditioned that that connection for men looks physical. Like men connect best through their physicality. Women connect best, and what they’ve been cultured to, is to connect best through emotions. 

And so when we can look at it like, well, my wife wants me to talk to her and listen to it, and I just want to have sex with her to connect with her. I want to show her how much I love her with my body. Neither one of those is wrong. You’re actually both looking for the same thing. You’re both looking for connection. But it’s how we’ve been cultured and how our bodies work that actually creates a balance between the two. 

Sara: Yeah, and so there’s a biological impact here. 

Amanda: Aspect, yeah. 

Sara: Aspect, but there also is a condition aspect because I know there are women who will listen to this and they are the higher desire partner. 

Amanda: Yes, but most of the time that is, I mean, we talk about it like in terms of horniness, right? But for most women, I mean, they don’t have that physiological drive from testosterone. For them, more of it is a mindset and it’s a drive for connection. And they prefer connection physically. 

Sara: Yes. 

Amanda: Some women do. Some women prefer connection emotionally before they can engage physically. So I am the higher desire partner in my marriage, but it’s usually not me just like I want sex all the time. It’s I want him. I want connection with him. I want to experience him in the best ways possible that I don’t experience anyone else. That’s what that higher need is for. 

Sara: Okay. That’s really good, thank you. Thank you. So this belief comes from how we’ve been conditioned to think about sex and higher levels of testosterone in men. But when it becomes this needs-based thing, it doesn’t create the connection that we’re actually searching for. 

Amanda: Right. 

Sara: So how might this belief, my spouse is supposed to fulfill my sexual needs, keeping in mind – So I think I forgot to mention this, but Amanda does speak to a lot of Christians, a big Christian audience. 

Amanda: Yeah. 

Sara: So she understands the Christian values and the monogamy and all of that and speaks to it very, very well. So how might this belief be harming your relationships? 

Amanda: Well, most of the time it prevents intimacy. Intimacy is about being fully known and knowing the other person. So when sex is considered a need, it isn’t about wanting and desiring to know. It’s just about getting what you need and not necessarily, like I said, considering the other person’s wants and needs. 

And when you don’t take the other person’s wants and needs into consideration, there’s no intimacy. It becomes completely one-sided. And this can go both ways. Often the husband is saying I need it. And the wife is saying, well, I need you to talk to me. And she’s not getting herself into a place where she can be sexual with her spouse, because that does take mental work for women because we don’t have that physiological drive. 

So it can get in the way of creating intimacy. I think it creates a lot of entitlement when it comes to sex. When we consider a need, we often feel entitled to it. It’s like I’m married, I have sexual needs, so it’s your job to give me this because I can’t go anywhere else. And when you feel entitled to something, you often demand that other people give it to you, instead of working to achieve what you want by becoming your best self to get there. 

For example, like if you were entitled to a well paying job, like are you entitled to a well paying job? Are you entitled to a fancy car? Technically, you don’t need those things. So if you want them, you have to figure out how to get them instead of just expecting them to be given to you. 

So if you want sex, then you need to put in the work to connect and make sure that you’re desirable so that you actually “earn” it. And I’m not advocating for a transactional relationship. But you need to be deserving it because you’re being your best self. 

Sara: Yes. Yeah, it’s interesting for me to think about maybe some of the things I was taught about sex growing up that really do play off of this belief that men are entitled to sex once they’re married. 

Amanda: Yeah. Well, and, I mean, gosh, so many of them had the narrative, like if they are LDS and they served a faithful mission. Like if you serve a faithful mission, you’ll get a hot wife. And hot wife translates to a wife that will, you know, be a freak in the sheets. 

Sara: Yeah. 

Amanda: I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that. 

Sara: Well, good. And so anyone who’s hearing me say that and you’re feeling like, “No, you don’t know.” There’s so much compassion and love for the men on this side and the woman on this side 

Amanda: So much, yes, both. 

Sara: There’s been messages told to you. It’s not like you’re just the worst and how dare you entitle sex? It’s like, no, there have been some things we’ve been taught that kind of subconsciously, you can be an amazing guy and subconsciously there’s kind of this behind it. 

Amanda: Yes. And so I talk to a lot of wives about their husband’s porn use and referring like, you might want to have your husband talk to Sara. So, I get all of these wives who are like, I love my husband so much. And he’s such an amazing man. And he’s a good man. But this issue that he has with pornography just prevents us from having the marriage that we want. 

I’m like, but is that the problem? Or is it your judgment about his pornography? And I’m coaching the wives on this too because while I wish porn didn’t exist, I also see that the way that we’ve been conditioned to talk about it and believe it, then that’s what causes the most problems in our marriage. 

Sara: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the truth is, is that there are people who have really beautiful relationships, very intimate relationships while another person is viewing pornography occasionally. And I’m not saying, you know, there’s nuance and there’s going to be different experiences. 

Amanda: Totally. 

Sara: But it’s not like a one size, you know, they view porn, everything’s gone. 

Amanda: Yes. Yeah. No, I understand. I just see it as, like you do I think, like this is a way that we often deal with emotions that we don’t want to feel. And it’s a coping mechanism and we all have coping mechanisms. Some are healthier than others. But it’s a coping mechanism nonetheless. 

Sara: Yeah, and something that can – So back to this belief like my spouse is supposed to fill my sexual needs, so much compassion. And it’s not like if you have this belief, now you just have to feel bad about yourself. There’s a lot of conditioning that we’ve been told and taught that have brought on this. 

I mean, look at movies you watched growing up. Or think about, like I love the exercise that I have my clients do, write down everything that you were taught about sex. Whether that be specifically from parents, from church experiences, from movies. What’s everything you were taught about it? And you can start to see some of these themes come up. 

Amanda: Yes. 

Sara: In order to quit porn and to have a really beautiful relationship with your spouse, we really need to question this belief that my spouse is supposed to fulfill this desire for sexuality. 

So next question, is there another way to think about this, especially from the lens of someone who doesn’t want to view porn? Who wants to be in monogamy, who only wants to have those really sexual experiences with their spouse. I don’t know, what can we think about? How can we think about this a little bit differently? 

Amanda: I think it’s just a matter of like, I want this for both of us. So what do I need to do to be desirable? How do I show up in this relationship as my best self to make it easier for my wife to actually want this too? When I’m looking for her to go, we call like caretake me, like she needs to take care of me. Just a little fun fact, women are not biologically attracted to people we have to take care of. 

Sara: Which is good. 

Amanda: Yeah, it’s a good thing. But if she’s like, “Now I have to take care of him and move into this caretaking role,” that’s not sexy. 

Sara: No. 

Amanda: And so when you’re like, “I’m here, I want you, I love you. And I’ll be okay if you decide not to engage with me,” then we can move out of that caretaking role and she can move into her role of, “No, this is actually what I want for myself and for us, not just to take care of you.” But it’s really about you stepping up and being like, “I’m going to be okay whether we have sex or not, but it’s something I really want for the both of us.” 

Sara: Yes. Yeah, beautiful. I love that. Can you talk a little bit about this idea of owning your sexuality. So your sexuality is yours. Your spouse’s is hers. And we’re coming together and maybe creating a really beautiful relationship while we’re each owning our own. How do you think this relates to that? Or thoughts about that? 

Amanda: Yeah, well, again, we’ve kind of been conditioned to believe that our spouse owns our sexuality. Like we’re going to give it to them on our wedding night. And we talk about losing our virginity. Well, then we’re losing a part of ourself. And just the language we use, for both men and women, has really reflected that. 

Sara: Yeah, it’s like everywhere. 

Amanda: It’s everywhere. It’s everywhere. But your sexuality was a gift to you. You have had it since the moment you were created. And then you can choose to share that with another person or not. And it’s not the other person’s responsibility, it’s your own responsibility to manage and understand and embrace and use in a way that’s going to connect you to others, rather than in a way that will keep you disconnected. 

Sara: Yeah, so good. I just did a panel at BYU and heard one of the speakers there talking about that, that specific language around connection. So we’ve used porn and like our porn use or our porn habit or whatever, in ways to disconnect from people for so long. What if we use that as a way to connect with people? 

And so when we’re talking about it, instead of doing it like with our person, this was kind of the idea, like instead of doing it from a confession point, what if we did it as like a connection point? 

Amanda: Yes, yes. 

Sara: Oh, isn’t that good? 

Amanda: So good. So good. I mean, really it is. We have a biological need to connect with others. And to have that intimacy and that sexual intimacy, is meant for us to connect with our spouse. And that’s really what it’s meant for, is within our value system we don’t connect that way with anyone else. 

And when we turn away from that and we’re using our sexuality in ways that actually disconnects us from our spouse, then it becomes about one person instead of both people and really creating a beautiful connection between the two of you. 

Sara: Yeah. Okay, so I’m hearing someone listening to this and they’re saying, “Okay, but my wife never wants sex and we haven’t had sex for a long time. And I have these, like even if you say I don’t need it, I’m still having these feelings like where I need a sexual release. What do I do?” 

Amanda: I’d say ask your wife. And if she doesn’t, give yourself permission to engage with your sexuality on your own without including pornography. 

Sara: Yeah. Okay, so tell us, like let’s be specific. What do you mean? 

Amanda: Masturbation. 

Sara: Yeah, okay. 

Amanda: I think those two, I think pornography and masturbation are too closely entangled for most people and they really are two very separate things. 

Sara: Yes. 

Amanda: I think you can masturbate thinking about your spouse and have it be sexually connecting, even if they don’t want to be part of it. 

Sara: Okay. So I can hear some people being like, “Well, wait, but I learned,” this is a whole other topic, right? 

Amanda: Yeah, I have lots of podcasts on this. 

Sara: So go listen to Amanda’s topics on masturbation. But wait, I learned masturbation is a big no, no. 

Amanda: Yeah. 

Sara: What would you say? 

Amanda: You’re an adult, you get to figure it out. Right, we talk about masturbation as, you know, mostly what we’re talking about is aimed at teenagers. And using their sexuality in a way that, like they don’t have a partner, right? So while you can be okay as a teenager, but really, that doesn’t even apply to you as a married adult. 

Sara: Yeah. 

Amanda: And you get to decide, as a married adult, what that looks like for you. And I love being able to come together as partners and talk about what masturbation might look like in your marriage. And your spouse could be like, “Absolutely not.” But that’s also a way for them to try and control your sexuality. 

Sara: Yeah. 

Amanda: And if it’s coming from the best in you and you’re using masturbation and thinking about your spouse in that way, I don’t see any problem with it, even if your spouse doesn’t agree. 

Sara: Yeah. So I love just coming back to this idea, like the goal here is connection. 

Amanda: Yep. 

Sara: And if we’re holding back because our spouse is supposed to give it to us, that’s not connection. 

Amanda: Nope. 

Sara: If we’re using masturbation as a way to punish or disconnect from our spouse, that’s not really connection. 

Amanda: Doing it in secret. 

Sara: Doing it in secret, yeah. 

Amanda: Or doing it instead because like if sex with your spouse is too vulnerable. 

Sara: Yeah. 

Amanda: Or like really turning away from intimacy and connection. If we’re using masturbation in that way, I don’t think that’s a good thing. 

Sara: Yeah. Yeah, beautiful. But if we’re keeping that result of connection, focus, my spouse, like I’m not going to force or punish my spouse, or turn my cheek and be a little bit resentful because they’re not having sex with me, I’m not going to do that. 

And so maybe I haven’t had sex in a long, long time and I need to release, masturbation might be a great option for me to continue to keep that connection with my spouse without me feeling like I’m forcing or punishing them without having sex with me. And I can do it in a way that actually helps me be more connected to her or him. 

Amanda: Yes, love it. I would definitely say that would be a better way to handle it. 

Sara: Yeah, really good. It’s just more of this idea that I talk about on the podcast of instead of looking at things so black and white, or like this is bad and this is good, looking at the results that we want in our life and being willing to look at our beliefs and change our beliefs to really create the result that we want. And the results that are coming from this belief, “my spouse is supposed to fulfill my sexual need” is not creating good. It’s not creating great results. 

Amanda: No, it’s not. And I think, I mean, it might have been a really long time because your spouse has beliefs about your pornography usage, about masturbation maybe. And really, what you’re wanting to do is connect and create intimacy between the two of you. And so that’s being curious about her experience, even if it’s hard for you to hear what her experience is as you’ve gone through this. 

And that’s where she’s going to feel seen and heard, and actually creates more intimacy, which is what you want. And when she’s feeling more seen and heard on a consistent basis, this is not a one and done, right? Then most likely she’s going to want to be more connected to you in this way. 

Sara: Yes. 

Amanda: And she might have to come work with me and come figure out her own part of this and what’s holding her back from wanting to connect sexually, right? So it really takes both people being willing to look at their own piece of this and deal with it. That self-confrontation part is so hard, but really looking at our own place in doing this and then working to come together.  

Sara: Yeah, really good. Oh, I love it. I love this conversation. And it sounds like with this conditioning that we’ve been taught to see sexuality as like it’s theirs and theirs is mine, it’s created a lot of problems. And for us to take a step back and to own it, and own it as mine and she’s owning hers is hers, and then we come together, that’s creating the relationship that we really desire and really want. 

Amanda: Well, and we know based on what we’ve been taught that agency is a really important part of our life and being here on Earth. And if you are trying to control your spouse’s sexuality, that’s not agency. And so we really have to look at like – 

Sara: Like on both sides too. 

Amanda: Both sides. Both sides, yes. And so really being agents, where we’re acting according to our integrity and our values, and working towards a common goal that we can share together, and creating the space and the freedom to do so without feeling manipulated, or having to caretake, or validate your spouse or whatever. Like really looking at it like, this is mine and I’m choosing to share it with you. 

Sara: Yeah. 

Amanda: That creates the best sexual relationships. 

Sara: Oh, so good. And then, I mean, from a spouse point of view, it’s not that fun to have duty sex. 

Amanda: No. Women who tell me they’re having duty sex, I’m like, stop, stop right now. Don’t do it. And that might mean not having sex for a while until you can get to a place where you actually want to do it and you’re not just doing it for him. 

Sara: Yeah, and the spouse on the receiving side of that can feel it when it’s duty sex too. 

Amanda: Because it’s not connecting. It’s not connecting. Even though you’re having sex, it’s not the actual sex that you want, because it’s not connecting for either one. 

Sara: So good. Okay, so tell us if you tell us about you. Okay, well, let me say that again. Okay, so tell us, if the spouse who is struggling with this is listening to this, or someone listening to this and their spouse, you know, they know their spouse wants help and wants to work with this and wants to find their sexuality, wants to start, from the wife – And I say wife, but really it could be husband, it could be whoever. 

Amanda: Yeah, I primarily just work with women. I work with men sometimes in conjunction with their wives. But really, my program right now is geared towards just women. But I may be opening up a men’s cohort in the next little while. So just something to think about. But yeah, it really is, what I do is for women, mainly. 

Sara: Okay, so tell us about that. Tell us about your program. 

Amanda: So like I said, I have a membership. It’s where you come in, you watch a few video courses, there’s weekly coaching, once you’re in my membership you can actually do private coaching with me. But you have to be in the membership first, because you’re getting that foundation in the membership of all of the things that I teach. 

So I know most of us didn’t have a comprehensive sex education. So not only am I teaching mindfulness and mindset, but I’m teaching, I’m educating because we don’t have a comprehensive sex education. So we work on relationship with self, we work on relationship with our spouse, we work on our relationship with our sexuality, as three separate parts. 

Sara: Love it. 

Amanda: And then I also, so I’ve done work to be trauma informed and also do somatic work. So a lot of times we’re trying to change our mindset, and the mindset piece is just not working. And we actually need to go into the body and figure out what’s going on in the body and try and integrate that so that then we can really work on more of the mindset piece. So I do that more in private sessions. 

Sara: Cool. 

Amanda: But yeah, so it’s just there’s a private podcast for the people that are in the membership. Monthly classes where either me or outside coaches that I bring in teach on different topics. And just we work on everything. 

Sara: Nice, love it. Where would they find that? What’s the website?

Amanda: So you just go to AmandaLouder.com/membership to look at all the different details and everything you’ll learn and get in there. It’s $49 a month, so it’s like super cheap. 

Sara: A great deal. 

Amanda: Yeah, or you can pay $499 for an entire year. But most people come and they stay because they just get a lot of value. 

Sara: Well, it sounds like a no-brainer. 

Amanda: Yeah, it really is. 

Sara: I’m just going to sell for you.

Amanda: Yes, please do. And I actually have a ton of coaches in there too, because even though they know some of these things, like mindset piece and stuff already, it often is one of the last pieces that we work on in ourselves. And so I have a good number of people in there and it’s really, I mean, we have a lot of fun too. I mean, what’s not to love when you get to talk about sex all day? 

Sara: I love it. I love it. So cool. Yeah, I mean, if you want to create this relationship, it’s absolutely doable. 

Amanda: Yep. 

Sara: It’s absolutely possible, you can and it’s going to start by, this belief we’ve talked about, it’s going to start with starting to uncover and unravel that belief that my spouse is there just to fulfill my sexual needs. 

Amanda: Yep. 

Sara: Really good. And you also do retreats? 

Amanda: I do, I do. So I just got home, just barely, from my women’s retreat. It was amazing. It’s called Embrace You, which is what my program is called as well. Really embracing all of yourself, including your sexuality. So we do a lot of self-work and understanding who we are at our core and healing a lot of those beliefs that we have about ourselves. 

And then working on our sexual, the sexual part of ourselves. And everything that I do at the retreat is very intentional. So I do boudoir photography for all of my clients. And sure, they can give it to their spouse, and that’s fun. But it’s really for them and to start seeing themselves in a new and different way. 

And we had this really fun group this past week. This is my fourth women’s retreat and it’s different every single time. But this group, they’re always so nervous at first. Like, “I don’t know if I can do it.” But I have a fantastic team of hair and makeup people that just make the women look their best. I have amazing photographers that just know how to position them and how to show off the assets and different things. 

And then Saturday night before we end, everybody’s given the option to include a couple of pictures in a slideshow that we watch with everyone. And we just get to like whoop and holler and everything and cheer everybody on. Because everybody, every single woman, it doesn’t matter what size or shape or anything, is so incredibly beautiful. And it’s so fun to see that. 

And I have to be honest, at the end almost all the women did the slideshow, and many of them were fully nude. Like not just even in lingerie, but like they’re showing fully nude slides to all of us women, right? And just like being so proud of themselves and really just seeing themselves in a whole new light. 

Sara: Yeah, very different than what some of us are conditioned to feel about our bodies and sexuality. How empowering. 

Amanda: Yes, it’s so empowering. We do a chair dancing class, so I bring in an instructor where she – And really I mean, yeah, it’s fun. And you might do it for your husband. But again, that’s not the point. The point is that we want to feel good in our skin and be able to move our body and we move a lot of our sexual energy by movement. And when you think of someone who is sexually alive and expressive, they’re not stiff, right? They know how to move their body. 

And so that’s just like all these little pieces that I put in that help open things up for these women. Now, if you’re thinking about coming, don’t get scared off. If you don’t want to show your fully nude body, that’s totally fine. 

Sara: It’s not required. 

Amanda: It is not required. I mean, there were plenty of women who were just like in lingerie or we didn't even see their face or whatever. It’s totally to your comfort level. And we even had one woman who just didn’t want to do it at all and just did headshots. And that’s totally fine too. It’s showing her beauty in a way that she’s comfortable with. So we just embrace it all. It’s so much fun. 

Sara: Yeah. Beautiful, I love it. I want everyone to, I want all the women to come and do this work. It’s so important. So good. 

Amanda: Yes, yes. I love it so much. 

Sara: Okay, cool. Also, you can find Amanda, so she did a workshop in the program that’s there in the vault that you can find, the sex coach workshop. So if you’re in the program, you can go find that and learn a bit more from her. You can find her on her podcast and her website, go sign up your spouse for her membership. 

Amanda: Don’t sign up your spouse. 

Sara: Don’t do that. 

Amanda: Don’t sign up your spouse, have a conversation about it and let her sign up if and when she’s ready. 

Sara: Much better. Much better. Way better. All right. Okay, thanks so much for being here. 

Amanda: Thanks for having me, Sara. 

Sara: Talk to you next week, you guys. Bye bye.

I want to invite you to come and listen to my free class, How To Overcome Pornography For Good Without Using Willpower. We talk about how to stop giving in to urges without pure willpower or relying on phone filters so that you can actually stop wanting pornography. 

We talk about how to stop giving up after a few weeks or months. And spoiler alert, the answer isn’t have more willpower. And then lastly, we talk about how to make a life without porn easily sustainable and permanent. We talk about how to stop giving up after a few weeks or months. And spoiler alert, the answer isn’t have more willpower. And then lastly, we talk about how to make a life without porn easily sustainable and permanent. 

If you’re trying to quit porn, this class is a game changer. So you can go and sign up at Sarabrewer.com/masterclass, and it is totally free.